Is Apple helping Nokia stay afloat?

Is Apple helping Nokia stay afloat?Nokia's latest quarterly figures were announced through the week, with the headline figures painting a picture that can be summed up in four words: it ain't looking good.

In fact, things are so fire that the company would be closer to making a profit if it stopped making phones altogether and simply lived off the royalties it gets from licensing its patents to Apple.

According to AppleInsider, Nokia took in around £370 million from Apple for using a number of proprietary technologies inside the likes of the iPhone 4S – a figure that will only escalate in the future on the back of Apple's seemingly unstoppable momentum.

Nokia's own prospects are far bleaker. Throughout last year it was able to brush off huge losses by promising that things would improve once its first Windows Phones arrived, pointing out that if anything the poor figures vindicated the decision to switch to Microsoft's OS in the first place.

Problem is, Nokia's debut Lumia devices are now here, and nothing much has changed. Its entire Windows Phone strategy depends on Lumia sales taking off, even if it means selling them at a loss to achieve it. So far, though, sales have been underwhelming.

Nokia's Windows Phone gamble may still prove successful in the long run, but if so it'll owe Cupertino a pretty big thank-you card for helping it get through the lean times.

Read more about: Windows Phone

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42 comments

Pondlife  Apr. 28, 2012 at 14:20

Sheesh unstoppable momentum, rewind a few years and Nokia looked unassailable in a similar if not superior fashion.

Q2 looks like it should be brighter for them than Q1 at least and WP8 could be a turning point, don't get me wrong I'm not expecting it to be, but I'm not writing their obit just yet.

SpeedyG  Apr. 28, 2012 at 14:31

Are things on fire, or just DIRE martin? :p

madstock  Apr. 28, 2012 at 15:24

As per the release on 24th:

"As of March 31 2012, Nokia had gross cash balances of EUR 9.8 billion, and a net cash position of EUR 4.9 billion".

I don't think that anyone should be writing their obit.

JanSt / MOD  Apr. 28, 2012 at 17:22

As per the release on 24th:

"As of March 31 2012, Nokia had gross cash balances of EUR 9.8 billion, and a net cash position of EUR 4.9 billion".

I don't think that anyone should be writing their obit.


What? Maybe you go back a couple of years? Apple could buy them from their CASH reserves, and shrug it off... It is Nokia! Those figures are horrific!

Do you understand how many employees Nokia have? How many outstanding bills? If they went bust now, the "reserves" you quote would be gone in 2 minutes.

madstock  Apr. 28, 2012 at 18:38


What? Maybe you go back a couple of years? Apple could buy them from their CASH reserves, and shrug it off... It is Nokia! Those figures are horrific!

Do you understand how many employees Nokia have? How many outstanding bills? If they went bust now, the "reserves" you quote would be gone in 2 minutes.


I would suggest a read through this and a less sensationalist/more proportionate response:

http://i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/1161004/data/1/-/Request-Nokia-in-2011-pdf.pdf

The figures are atrocious without a doubt, but going bust doesn't really appear to be on the cards.

sparkymark75  Apr. 28, 2012 at 19:11

It's clear the author is an Apple fan. Apple may be on the crest of a wave just now but the only way is down.

JanSt / MOD  Apr. 28, 2012 at 20:08


What? Maybe you go back a couple of years? Apple could buy them from their CASH reserves, and shrug it off... It is Nokia! Those figures are horrific!

Do you understand how many employees Nokia have? How many outstanding bills? If they went bust now, the "reserves" you quote would be gone in 2 minutes.


I would suggest a read through this and a less sensationalist/more proportionate response:

http://i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/1161004/data/1/-/Request-Nokia-in-2011-pdf.pdf

The figures are atrocious without a doubt, but going bust doesn't really appear to be on the cards.


Did I say they are going bust? Did I? I said, IF NOKIA went bust!
As to what's "on the cards": "too big too fail" is out the window in case you haven't noticed ;)

And "more proportionate" is what you want? Do some proper research! In the last 100 years NOT A SINGLE CEO oversaw a company going down that badly in 12 months. NOT ONE!
No MS-sponsored PR-machine can whirl that away with their fans...

And: I own an N9 and an X7 before that. I also had one of the first WP devices ... I own nothing Apple at the moment; and I vaguely dislike Android.

JanSt / MOD  Apr. 28, 2012 at 20:10

It's clear the author is an Apple fan. Apple may be on the crest of a wave just now but the only way is down.

By the author, do you mean Martin? LOL... You're so off.
The "Apple fan" card doesn't play anymore. It's an old boring trick. It used to work on a few people back when, but c'mon... some real arguments are required now.

madstock  Apr. 28, 2012 at 20:56


Did I say they are going bust? Did I? I said, IF NOKIA went bust!
As to what's "on the cards": "too big too fail" is out the window in case you haven't noticed ;)

And "more proportionate" is what you want? Do some proper research! In the last 100 years NOT A SINGLE CEO oversaw a company going down that badly in 12 months. NOT ONE!
No MS-sponsored PR-machine can whirl that away with their fans...

And: I own an N9 and an X7 before that. I also had one of the first WP devices ... I own nothing Apple at the moment; and I vaguely dislike Android.


Indeed you did; although saying "If Nokia went bust, their cash reserves would be gone" is like saying "If I empty this glass of water, all my water will be gone".

With regards to "proper research", you scream that "In the last 100 years NOT A SINGLE CEO oversaw a company going down that badly in 12 months. NOT ONE!" - putting aside the fact that this kind of vague innuendo doesn't make sense, I would suggest that you look into the financial histories of AOL Time Warner, who lost $98.7bn in 2002, AIG ($99.3bn in 2008), Fannie Mae ($74.4bn in 2009) and many, many more. (Closer to home, consider RBS in 2008 and even Vodafone UK in 2006 who lost £14.853bn).

I read on here recently someone stating that Elop was more like a CFO than a CEO, and wholeheartedly agree with this - the tone of this original article, and the knee-jerk, ill-informed responses however smack of lazy journalism.

JanSt / MOD  Apr. 28, 2012 at 21:24


Did I say they are going bust? Did I? I said, IF NOKIA went bust!
As to what's "on the cards": "too big too fail" is out the window in case you haven't noticed ;)

And "more proportionate" is what you want? Do some proper research! In the last 100 years NOT A SINGLE CEO oversaw a company going down that badly in 12 months. NOT ONE!
No MS-sponsored PR-machine can whirl that away with their fans...

And: I own an N9 and an X7 before that. I also had one of the first WP devices ... I own nothing Apple at the moment; and I vaguely dislike Android.


Indeed you did; although saying "If Nokia went bust, their cash reserves would be gone" is like saying "If I empty this glass of water, all my water will be gone".

With regards to "proper research", you scream that "In the last 100 years NOT A SINGLE CEO oversaw a company going down that badly in 12 months. NOT ONE!" - putting aside the fact that this kind of vague innuendo doesn't make sense, I would suggest that you look into the financial histories of AOL Time Warner, who lost $98.7bn in 2002, AIG ($99.3bn in 2008), Fannie Mae ($74.4bn in 2009) and many, many more. (Closer to home, consider RBS in 2008 and even Vodafone UK in 2006 who lost £14.853bn).

I read on here recently someone stating that Elop was more like a CFO than a CEO, and wholeheartedly agree with this - the tone of this original article, and the knee-jerk, ill-informed responses however smack of lazy journalism.



I disagree with you. Wholeheartedly. ;)
Also: you mistakenly assume my replies here are meant to be "journalism".
My comments are my comments.
Also: bigger numbers don't mean bigger losses or worse performance. Curious you should mention Fannnie Mae in connection with Elop. Fannie Mae executives acted criminally...
And obviously in the mortgage business sums involved are bigger.

But, here, lets just part. I believe your trust in yourself. Your conviction and your ability to Google. If you would like to put your view of the Nokia "crisis" into a publishable article: Mobot is always looking for fresh articles. Hit the contact-us tab at the bottom.
This is not a one-opinion-only site ;)

JanSt / MOD  Apr. 28, 2012 at 21:27


Did I say they are going bust? Did I? I said, IF NOKIA went bust!
As to what's "on the cards": "too big too fail" is out the window in case you haven't noticed ;)

And "more proportionate" is what you want? Do some proper research! In the last 100 years NOT A SINGLE CEO oversaw a company going down that badly in 12 months. NOT ONE!
No MS-sponsored PR-machine can whirl that away with their fans...

And: I own an N9 and an X7 before that. I also had one of the first WP devices ... I own nothing Apple at the moment; and I vaguely dislike Android.


although saying "If Nokia went bust, their cash reserves would be gone" is like saying "If I empty this glass of water, all my water will be gone".




Creative editing, mate ;) Left out a bit, no? "...in 2 minutes". Small figure, big difference.

JanSt / MOD  Apr. 28, 2012 at 21:31

Now, I'll extract myself, because we've gone vaguely off-topic. A more suitable place to continue ;)

madstock  Apr. 28, 2012 at 21:52

Creative editing, mate ;) Left out a bit, no? "...in 2 minutes". Small figure, big difference.


Sorry about that, to rephrase : to say "If they went bust now, the "reserves" you quote would be gone in 2 minutes." is a moot point, as they would be bust, and as such there would be no reserves by definition.

With regards to your kindly offer, my opinion on the Nokia "crisis" can pretty much be summed up as "wait and see" - if a company can release the likes of the N97, the nGage, the 3650 and 7280 and stay afloat then surely killing off their major OS, strangling another at birth and then jumping into bed with a young pretender might turn out okay. When I put it like that...

JanSt / MOD  Apr. 28, 2012 at 23:16

I do partly agree. In 2009 PC Mag's mobile chief called Android "DOA"..
Maybe you missed it: I quite openly hate Microsoft... No use denying it. :p

stillcuttingandpasting  Apr. 29, 2012 at 00:58

Another lazy cut and paste story from Mobot with a deliberate antagonistic approach to comment to elicit a response to get traffic. Is there ever a chance of original stories and individual interpretation of the mobile industry from the mods?
Lots of other companies give Nokia swag, including lots from Microsoft. Is a few minutes of research to be able to offer insight, a wider perspective & understanding of the area too difficult? It would appear so.

Apart from allowing me a chuckle at the content, I'm at a loss what Mobot actually adds. To quote the article 'In fact, things are so fire' - don't you mean at Mobot in fact things are so dire..

JanSt / MOD  Apr. 29, 2012 at 11:04

Another lazy cut and paste story from Mobot with a deliberate antagonistic approach to comment to elicit a response to get traffic. Is there ever a chance of original stories and individual interpretation of the mobile industry from the mods?
Lots of other companies give Nokia swag, including lots from Microsoft. Is a few minutes of research to be able to offer insight, a wider perspective & understanding of the area too difficult? It would appear so.

Apart from allowing me a chuckle at the content, I'm at a loss what Mobot actually adds. To quote the article 'In fact, things are so fire' - don't you mean at Mobot in fact things are so dire..








Impressive.
Again - you say Mobot adds nothing, and you prove that by adding? Nothing.
Other than that you don't like us, I have no idea what your opinion is regarding Nokia's "situation".

Furthermore, I doubt you hit the link to AppleInsider that Martin provided.
While Martin asks a rhetorical question in the headline, AppleInsider makes a bold statement in its own header. If you don't see any differences in the two articles, I cannot help you. And I guess that would be mutual, because, as I already said, you are ownly here to fling some dung; else you would have added something to garnish it.

Also, Arguably, 370 million is really not such a big deal... It's more of a side story. I wouldn't have brought it up at all... In the industry where everyone owes everyone else, sue everyone else, buys stuff just to possibly sue someone later.

You say: "with a deliberate antagonistic approach to comment to elicit a response to get traffic."... ??? Could it be that "we" wish to elicit comments? Debate? Did you notice that Mobot is a blog and community? That There is a comment section? That every visitor can start a thread? Nowhere does it say our goal is to be infallible while delivering written-in-stone facts.
The article Martin quotes from on the other hand? There's an unnamed source. Followed by a serving of smug we-know-it-all because we have (unnamed) sources "journalism".
I learned more here inn the comments.

If you want some more detail: http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/04/who-wants-numbers-lumia-on-t-mobile-lumia-800-vs-lumia-710-how-many-nokia-n9.html

That adds some weight to Martin's scepticism.
Or how about:
Certain Road to Death and Definition of Insanity => http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/04/certain-road-to-death-and-definition-of-insanity.html

Tomi Ahonen is not Eldar Murtazin. Go back on his blog a year or so... he correctly predicted every twist and turn in Nokia's decline thus far...

But, alas, you can also just pop in now and again, not really read, not really contribute, and just dump some dung instead. Mobot doesn't charge you for that...
Have a nice day.

bettsy  Apr. 29, 2012 at 12:33

Another lazy cut and paste story from Mobot with a deliberate antagonistic approach to comment to elicit a response to get traffic. Is there ever a chance of original stories and individual interpretation of the mobile industry from the mods?
Lots of other companies give Nokia swag, including lots from Microsoft. Is a few minutes of research to be able to offer insight, a wider perspective & understanding of the area too difficult? It would appear so.

Apart from allowing me a chuckle at the content, I'm at a loss what Mobot actually adds. To quote the article 'In fact, things are so fire' - don't you mean at Mobot in fact things are so dire..


Whilst not the best executed post, there are some aspects I agree with. All too many articles from Lewis, Martin et al which is just rehashed from Engadget, Gizmodo or another mobile related site. It would be nice to see some unique articles or perspective on the mobile industry, might be worth Mobot looking towards people who are actually in the industry as opposed to fans?

bettsy  Apr. 29, 2012 at 12:35

and in reference to the original point, no Apple aren't keeping Nokia afloat. Microsoft's silly amount of money they've thrown at them for marketing the Lumia series is what is keeping them afloat.

They'll get bought out within 2-3 years, having said that Nokia will get their crown of biggest smartphone manufacturer back when the re-classification of symbian devices as a 'smart phone' gets done by the usual market research & sales reporting companies.

sparkymark75  Apr. 29, 2012 at 13:17

It's clear the author is an Apple fan. Apple may be on the crest of a wave just now but the only way is down.

By the author, do you mean Martin? LOL... You're so off.
The "Apple fan" card doesn't play anymore. It's an old boring trick. It used to work on a few people back when, but c'mon... some real arguments are required now.


Such as using AppleInsider as a source or claiming that Nokia will owe Apple thanks for keeping them afloat? Nokia is doing what every other company is doing, licensing it's technology to others. Maybe it's Apple that should be thanking Nokia for licensing it in the first place?

bettsy  Apr. 29, 2012 at 13:20

Nokia is doing what every other company is doing, licensing it's technology to others. Maybe it's Apple that should be thanking Nokia for licensing it in the first place?

Apple thanking them? Wakey wakey, it's business. Nokia don't have the R&D to execute the technology, they're probably grateful that someone has used the technology in such a way where they can get licensing money in return.

Pondlife  Apr. 29, 2012 at 13:23

Think it's more that they have to licence the tech, rather than they've decided to make a bit from it.

matt101101 / MOD  Apr. 29, 2012 at 13:27

might be worth Mobot looking towards people who are actually in the industry as opposed to fans?
And I'd like a private jet, a Lamborghini Aventador and a big house in the countryside...but I can't afford those, either.

Treab  Apr. 29, 2012 at 13:51

might be worth Mobot looking towards people who are actually in the industry as opposed to fans?
And I'd like a private jet, a Lamborghini Aventador and a big house in the countryside...but I can't afford those, either.


do you remember the good old days... when the worst you had to deal with was me... now you get smart a**es expecting perfection on a blog site..

bettsy  Apr. 29, 2012 at 13:52

might be worth Mobot looking towards people who are actually in the industry as opposed to fans?
And I'd like a private jet, a Lamborghini Aventador and a big house in the countryside...but I can't afford those, either.


Trust me, im sure there are readers out there that are involved within the industry.

JanSt / MOD  Apr. 29, 2012 at 14:07

might be worth Mobot looking towards people who are actually in the industry as opposed to fans?
And I'd like a private jet, a Lamborghini Aventador and a big house in the countryside...but I can't afford those, either.


Trust me, im sure there are readers out there that are involved within the industry.

Yes, bettsy, and there is Farcebook and Twitter, and WordPress etc etc etc....
Mobot is constantly looking for fresh voices, be it 'insiders' or hobby modders...

I am puzzled, though: why should this community copy BGR or Gizmodo etc? Why is an "insider" more interesting than a collaborative exchange?

Elop is an insider, yet, a laugh aside, I'm not interested in his warped views.
Some people consider Eldar M an 'insider'...
And all the insiders spouting rumours about the next iPhone or SGS - how right are they usually? Who predicted that the most stir at this year's MWC would be caused by a 41mp Symbian phone?

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