Treab

Microsoft.. How much more can they kill windows phone...

With the news that windows 7.5 will be upgraded to 7.8 NOT WP8 and devs can choose to develop for one or the other or both (more work)

how much longer can windows phone exist? with the lumia 900 still costing 450+ and already totally out of date and with a short shelf life will we see the already crashing price of the lumia range tumble still further? or is this the start of total fragmentation.. (even android 4.0 can be found on single core phones.. so why cant wp8...)

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13 comments

JanSt / MOD  Jun. 21, 2012 at 06:45

You know what I think... Right?

JanSt / MOD  Jun. 21, 2012 at 06:57

Okay... I think - who knows?
At the moment they still have some network support. But with sim-free device prices falling, and the next 'big thing' being Skype integration, I don't see that support growing. The carriers hate Skype (except for Three).
On the other hand, I recently spoke with 4 store managers of 3 Irish phone carriers, and they all made a similar observation: a lot of customers are beginning to lose the plot with regards to Android. The non-geeks are getting confused by the flood of very similar devices. The geeks are turned off by 'fragmentation' - the not-knowing whether the device will be upgraded, can be rooted etc etc... I'm not saying it's a relevant 'trend', but still.
Basically, they all said, people either go for any cheap(ish) Android or the high-end - meaning the SGS2 or - now - 3. And many change their mind and pick an iPhone instead.
And a few 'smartphone customers' say, sod it, and upgrade to a dumbphone.

So, who knows. I don't care, but (mod hat off...): if it hurts M$, I'm game... :p

satchef1  Jun. 21, 2012 at 11:19

I understand the technical reasons as to why it had to happen.
I kinda respect the fact that they can't do it for technical reasons and that it's not a commercial decision to help push newer devices (*cough* Apple *cough*).
I'm not too bothered either way myself, my contract is up in October.
I do feel sorry for those who bought the Lumia 900 or Titan II recently though (or anyone else paying a significant amount for a Windows Phone over the past 6 months). It's app support more than anything, 7.8 will get a good number of new features. For now, people will continue to build WP7 apps due to the install base and forwards compatibility with WP8. That won't last forever though. Maybe 12 months before a significant number of developers have moved over? If you've got 18 months+ left on your contract then that's going to suck.

WP8 is looking pretty good though. Blew iOS 6 out of the water, and there's still a lot more to come. What was shown yesterday was just the stuff affecting app development, plus a token bit of enterprise and the WP7.8 news.

JanSt / MOD  Jun. 21, 2012 at 12:02

I understand the technical reasons as to why it had to happen.
I kinda respect the fact that they can't do it for technical reasons and that it's not a commercial decision to help push newer devices (*cough* Apple *cough*).
I'm not too bothered either way myself, my contract is up in October.
I do feel sorry for those who bought the Lumia 900 or Titan II recently though (or anyone else paying a significant amount for a Windows Phone over the past 6 months). It's app support more than anything, 7.8 will get a good number of new features. For now, people will continue to build WP7 apps due to the install base and forwards compatibility with WP8. That won't last forever though. Maybe 12 months before a significant number of developers have moved over? If you've got 18 months+ left on your contract then that's going to suck.

WP8 is looking pretty good though. Blew iOS 6 out of the water, and there's still a lot more to come. What was shown yesterday was just the stuff affecting app development, plus a token bit of enterprise and the WP7.8 news.


You know my - ahem - issues with Microsoft, but to be honest: at this point I'd rather pick up a WP device than another Android. I assume when the rumoured SD expansion becomes reality, it'll be possible to sideload content without Zune?

satchef1  Jun. 21, 2012 at 18:33

All I can say on that front is there was a slide during the presentation that said "Micro SD Cards [picture of Micro SD card] Photos Music Videos Installing Apps. Make of that what you will. They didn't confirm or deny whether you can install apps from an SD card, and the slide could just refer to installing them to the SD card, you can definitely move music,hoots and videos to and fromSD card freely though, allowing these files to be transferred without any proprietary software.

AhmadCentral  Jun. 21, 2012 at 18:42

Okay... I think - who knows?
At the moment they still have some network support. But with sim-free device prices falling, and the next 'big thing' being Skype integration, I don't see that support growing. The carriers hate Skype (except for Three).
On the other hand, I recently spoke with 4 store managers of 3 Irish phone carriers, and they all made a similar observation: a lot of customers are beginning to lose the plot with regards to Android. The non-geeks are getting confused by the flood of very similar devices. The geeks are turned off by 'fragmentation' - the not-knowing whether the device will be upgraded, can be rooted etc etc... I'm not saying it's a relevant 'trend', but still.
Basically, they all said, people either go for any cheap(ish) Android or the high-end - meaning the SGS2 or - now - 3. And many change their mind and pick an iPhone instead.
And a few 'smartphone customers' say, sod it, and upgrade to a dumbphone.

So, who knows. I don't care, but (mod hat off...): if it hurts M$, I'm game... :p


I agree, there is no real demand for a mid end market anymore. People either go for cheap phones, or top of the line e.g GS2/GS3. Its why so many networks price mid range phones slightly under top end phones and then have cheap phones much cheaper than both.

About Windows Phone, tbh it's the only way for them to create a unified OS that integrates seamlessly between PC/Tablet/Mobile. Like how Apple have tried to do with Snow leopard and launchpad and iOS and iTunes etc...

However you're right in saying it won't fit well with consumers who have just purchased the latest Windows Phone to find its now dead.

matt101101 / MOD  Jun. 21, 2012 at 18:57

Microsoft have now killed 2 mobile OS' in as many years....that's pretty good going...

JanSt / MOD  Jun. 21, 2012 at 20:57

Microsoft have now killed 2 mobile OS' in as many years....that's pretty good going... 3 if you count the Zune player...

JanSt / MOD  Jun. 21, 2012 at 20:59

All I can say on that front is there was a slide during the presentation that said "Micro SD Cards [picture of Micro SD card] Photos Music Videos Installing Apps. Make of that what you will. They didn't confirm or deny whether you can install apps from an SD card, and the slide could just refer to installing them to the SD card, you can definitely move music,hoots and videos to and fromSD card freely though, allowing these files to be transferred without any proprietary software. I wouldn't worry about sideloadable apps, but I don't think I'd go for another phone that I can't just connect to any composter to drop some pics or songs on...

shrewdpenguin  Jun. 22, 2012 at 09:32

I find myself in the really odd position of having grew up with linux, i really hate it when i have to use windows (for anything other than games that is) however when i drunkenly bought a windows phone off ebay i bloody loved it, yes it has many faults my two biggest problems are having to use zune and bing integration. But overall i love it far more than i ever loved my android.

The fact that my phone will only end up going to 7.8 rather than 8 does not bother me massively, as i have no use for duel core support/sd card support however much i would love to be able to load music without zune, there might be a load of feature they announce later that i wont get that i care more about but having spent only £90ish im not too bothered.

What has really impressed me about microsoft in this whole situation is unlike apple who say you are getting your ios upgraded to the new version and then just leave out loads of features but call it the same thing, atleast microsoft is upfront about about the fact you are not getting the same software.

I just really hope that 7.8 is not a dead end, even if i never reach 8 i would quite like to get some more upgrades, 7.81...

JanSt / MOD  Jun. 22, 2012 at 09:42

I find myself in the really odd position of having grew up with linux, i really hate it when i have to use windows (for anything other than games that is) however when i drunkenly bought a windows phone off ebay i bloody loved it, yes it has many faults my two biggest problems are having to use zune and bing integration. But overall i love it far more than i ever loved my android.

The fact that my phone will only end up going to 7.8 rather than 8 does not bother me massively, as i have no use for duel core support/sd card support however much i would love to be able to load music without zune, there might be a load of feature they announce later that i wont get that i care more about but having spent only £90ish im not too bothered.

What has really impressed me about microsoft in this whole situation is unlike apple who say you are getting your ios upgraded to the new version and then just leave out loads of features but call it the same thing, atleast microsoft is upfront about about the fact you are not getting the same software.

I just really hope that 7.8 is not a dead end, even if i never reach 8 i would quite like to get some more upgrades, 7.81...

Can you give examples of Apple doing that?

shrewdpenguin  Jun. 22, 2012 at 09:56

I find myself in the really odd position of having grew up with linux, i really hate it when i have to use windows (for anything other than games that is) however when i drunkenly bought a windows phone off ebay i bloody loved it, yes it has many faults my two biggest problems are having to use zune and bing integration. But overall i love it far more than i ever loved my android.

The fact that my phone will only end up going to 7.8 rather than 8 does not bother me massively, as i have no use for duel core support/sd card support however much i would love to be able to load music without zune, there might be a load of feature they announce later that i wont get that i care more about but having spent only £90ish im not too bothered.

What has really impressed me about microsoft in this whole situation is unlike apple who say you are getting your ios upgraded to the new version and then just leave out loads of features but call it the same thing, atleast microsoft is upfront about about the fact you are not getting the same software.

I just really hope that 7.8 is not a dead end, even if i never reach 8 i would quite like to get some more upgrades, 7.81...

Can you give examples of Apple doing that?


ios6 on the iphone 3gs will apparently be missing VIP Mail, Share Photo Streams, turn-by-turn navigation, flyover 3D Maps and siri.
Even when the iphone 4 get ios6 it wont get siri.

Stelph  Jun. 22, 2012 at 13:15

I agree, the announcement of WP8 did make me wonder if Elop was behind it since it has to be up there with the burning platform announcement (although not as bad as at least there is a get out clause for WP7 phones, and there wasnt with Symbian)

However I do slightly admire the direction that Microsoft is going by stating that apps can be created to be multiplatform on both the WP8 phone and metro windows 8. I would love for it to be set up so that, using the cloud, things that I did on the phone were automatically brought across to the PC and vice versa, for example:

- On the train on the way to work I play a game on WP7 getting to level 7, after work when I get home I can fire up the PC and carry on at level 7
- Whilst out shopping I have an idea on how to update a letter I am writing, I do some simple edits on the phone and when I get home its already updated on the PC

There are ways of doing this but none are currently "intuitive" or "just work" as far as I am aware, this sort of cross platform communication is key and I can see both MS and Apple trying to push towards it

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